Future of SAV

As the QT update in Forums shows ...with 500 new views in the last week alone... there are still lots of lurkers here. Whether they are members or, do not wish to sign in or CANNOT is the question. Regardless, those numbers are heartening as they show that a lot of people are interested in at least viewing the site.

This site could become unstable at any time, so it is important to have an alternative and... there is one. @JGorn - antivaxxer goatee hell made an alternative site and as @HOS wrote today, it is in jeopardy as the number of people participating are dwindling. Please do sign in there or register if you have not yet, and let @JGorn know you appreciate his efforts.

https://fafochronicles.com/general-interest/have-we-jumped-the-shark/

There is a chat, lots of categories and familiar faces blogging. (unlike this space... sadly)

=So as everybody knows, this website hasn't had any profile updates in about a year. The best thing would be if one or more peope could take on administration fo this site but there seems to be not much chance of that since no one even knows how to contact Vaxman.

Last year we were discussing possibly reforming a new discussion forum elsewhere. At one point someone mentioned Reddit, and one of the objections at that time was that you can't post pics or gifs to it. But now you can. So I thought I'd bring up the idea of starting up an SAV group on Reddit and seeing if there's any interest.

This site could disappear from one day to the next, but we know that Reddit isn't going anywhere. Anyway, just thought I'd bring up the idea to see if anyone has any thoughts.

I just logged in for a quick visit and was surprised to see the first message that popped up was addressed to me by HOS on this exact subject.

I had hoped that vaxman might suddenly reappear from his long absence and provide some guidance, but alas it seems that is not to be.

I know most of us (or all of us) are getting pretty tired of seeing Laura's mug still popping up day after day.

I had thought of creating a wordpress site, with some input from you guys, and then hopefully sharing the administration among a few of the SAV stalwarts.

I was also kind of hoping maybe someone else who has some basic web knowledge could step up to this task but as we haven't seen that happen well....

What I can do is set up an initial word site and have a working have a look at it and see if it's suitable for our purposes. I didn't want to put much effort into something unless people were truly interested, but it seems like most people are at least somewhat interested.

As a minimum what we need is:

The ability to post a new profile. (basically a blog post)

The ability to comment on these profiles.

The ability to administer the site, ie moderate it, if needed

And hopefully also:

Private message capability

Ability to search messages

(anything else?)

So what I'd like is to hear from a few people who might be willing to be a 'working group', first of all to evaluate a new site, and then who might be able to share admin duties. I am not looking to be a new vaxman, so I'd like some kind of community effort to emerge.

I'm basically just trying to get the ball rolling on this, and hopefully then a few others will pitch in and create new profiles as Vaxman and Vaxxylady used to do in the good old days.

I'll post this message in the 'Future of SAV' forum as well. Maybe we also need a new forum for 'New site working group' or something like that.

https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/forum/general-discussion/future-of-sav

No... don't worry, I am not going to be going anywhere else with you folks... I just don't want this to drop down the reading list because of my posts today,

Stop The Madness wrote: "Since Vaxman's whereabouts are completely unknown, it feels like we should be thinking about decamping to somewhere else." I have thought about what would happen if the site suddenly, simply disappeared. In a poof. No access. We would 1) lose all of the content that has already been built up - not simply the posts of Vaxmann/Vaxxlady and HCA but the comments to all of those posts; and 2) we would lose access to all of the people we have come to know on SAV and have no way of contacting them. If (when) we decamp to greener pastures I would very much like to capture the current posts and comments of SAV for the "archives" of the new site but don't see how we could ethically do that without Vaxxman's consent.

So the question is: would people be in favor of having an alternative sorryantivaxxer site (most likely wordpress) that we could use a refuge in case this site bites the dust?

Ideally we could have a new site in place and it everyone would be informed about it. it could be the emergency exit if this site suddently goes down. That way we could easily regroup and hopefully keep this nice little community going.

In the meantime, possibly a few of us could start publishing some antivaxxer profiles on the new site (if / when it exists) and a few others could start to test it out, give feedback etc.

We'd also need a couple of people who wouldn't mind being adims of the alternative site.

So the idea is: keep using this site as long as possible, but everyone could be signed up to the alternative site (this would be a general wordpress login), so that we could switch over, seemlessly if / when this site goes down.

If we're going to get anything off the ground and have an 'escape hatch', we'd best do it soon, so that the entire community doesn't get fed up and leave. Already there are rumblings of discontent from having to look down the nostrils of Nose-tradamus for two straight months.

I just had an idea for continuing this site and also strenghthening it.

Covid cases have been winding down, but anti-vax hysteria is still prominent, and there are idiots out there who oppose safe and effective vaccines for various diseases! Therefore, I would propose that this site expands to profile people who have been infected with diseases other than covid as a result of their anti-vax stance. In the near future, we may see willfully unvaccinated rubes infected with polio, smallpox, measles, etc.

If this site is expanded to include anti-vaxxers suffering from other diseases, we don't even have to change the name! It's called "Sorry Anti-Vaxxer", not "Sorry Anti-Covid Vaxxer".

It's clear something has to happen if we want to preserve this community. I'm a bit reluctant to give heavily involved with something because I don't have enough spare time as it is. On the other hand I'm happy to be involved in any discussions, offering advice, opinions etc.

And if no one else is stepping up to create a new site, I can create one on wordpress. It's easy enough to do. But then of course we'd need a couple of volunteer mods.

I have checked a few available names for the site for availability in case you'd like to hear them.

Unfortunately (fortunately?) there's not much reason to come here anymore. This site has been abandoned by its creator and its moderators. Vaxxman, Vaxxylady, HCAMan, etc have all left this site ini the dust, and it's not like any of them JUST left. They're all long gone.

Personally I would hope the site will continue as a base for reporting dangerous vaccine related propaganda and factual rebuttals. Recognizing that new posts disappear into the stream, here's an idea. We don't have the daily self-suicide of anti-vaxxers anymore.

Why not have a random day or weekly news topic update posted based on tips from members? Then all members can respond on that topic. It solves the problem of losing updates. Moving to a new platform might entail the loss of many members.

Ages ago I set up a Discord server as a backup for SAV. It had a little traction at first, but never reached "critical mass" to be self-sustaining. Discord is pretty flexible and it's fairly granular re: permissions, but there would have to be mods to help run one, because I’m in Europe and couldn't be online when most people would. Anonymity/ pseudonymity would be possible depending on how it was set up, and Discord is fairly stable.

Btw. I said earlier that I would try to set up a new site, but I'm also busy attempting to find a new job. (I work in automated software testing, in case anyone has any contacts.) I'm finding I don't have much time to take on a new project at the moment, but would be glad to help if anyone else wants to take this on.

I tried to start a SubReddit for us that I envisioned as a place of refuge where we could in case SAV or Wix suddenly bites the dust. However, not only is the name FAFO taken, but it is also 'banned' for being unmoderated.

So the irony is that FAFO is not being used but it is also not available!

I run 3 websites. Ignore the one site as it is my commercial site. The other two are a WordPress archaeology site, and a historical documents site using Omeka Classic hosted on Reclaim ( https://www.reclaimhosting.com/shared-hosting/ ) and each has a domain. For a little money it is a good deal. They are a great site host, I wouldn't go back to Siteground for any reason. You can take your pick on which delivery to use- from here https://installatron.com/apps

You can go free site, but I prefer to control my own content

I wish I could help. But managing my own social network instance is hard enough. Hope this continues on in the same spirit. WordPress is okay, but also just happy if vBulletin was used.

Long term though we need something like this site, only a bit better. and without the shortcomings of Wix. I don't have that much time to devote to it, but as mentioned I'm willing to try to set somethign up on Wordpress and see if it would fit the bill. I was hoping we'd hear something from Vaxman by now, but he's been AWOL for quite a while.

And as a sort of backup plan, we could also start a thread on Reddit. In case Wix really goes kaboom, or if for any reason Vaxman suddenly decides to pull the plug on this site, it would be a way to keep in touch with each other. I'm not suggesting Reddit as a replacement site but just a failsafe. Name of the thread could be FAFO and only the 'initiated' such as ourselves woudl know what it stands for so hopefully it wouldn't get invaded by trolls.

A million views in April! Jesus! It makes no sense.

I'll go anywhere ya'll go except for FB or Xfiles, or whatever billionaire buffoon is calling it now.

I started this forum post to stimulate discussion around how the SAV community can survive and even thrive. I'm glad to see so many of you commenting and expressing some great ideas on where we can go.

First of all, Why not move to Facebook? I think the reasons are clear. Most of us are just not fans of Facebook and don't really want to join any Zuckerberg project. What about Reddit? It's a good choice but We couldn't so easily mix text, images and memes.

So I'm going to try setting up something on wordpress and hopefully get a few of you to evaluate the demo and see if that would 'fit the bill'. (if anyone has any other good ideas, let me know.)

I definitely don't want this to be some kind of 'one man show'. And I also just don't have large amounts of time to spend moderating and posting, so there would have to be at least 2-3 admins willing to help out with this. (guys and gals, pls let me know who's willing to participate).

My assumption is that we are moving away from the pure antivaxxer focus, and more into discussion about the news of the day, posting memes, news articles etc.

The posts would be like a blog with comments (hopefully searchable) and hopefully with private messages allowed.

I had a wordpress site during the early days of 'the former guy', mostly sarcastic news about 'the former guy'. (still exists btw. -- let me know if anyone wants to have a look.) I got to around 100 posts but I never even tried to increase readship outside of a small circle.

Here are some proposals for a name:

'Idiot Of The Week'

'FAFO'

'SAV Social Club'

'This Can't Happen Here'

The first reflects the changing focus of the SAV community to include all outrageous idots, not just antivaxxers.

FAFO is fitting since it's more or less the unofficial 'motto' of this site, but might be confusing for any newcomers. (not thatthat'a a reason not to use it.)

The third reflects the fact that this group has its origins in 'SorryAntiVaxxer.com'.

The third reflects the outrageousness of the current political situation, and calls to mind Sinclair Lewis' 1935 novel where an american politician attempts to become America's answer to Adolf Hitler, and also Frank Zappa's 1966 song of the same name. My preference is for this one, and conveniently enough, I already 'own' that name on wordpress.

Mainly though I just hope to get some kind of consensus on setting up a new community and hopefully generate some interest in moving over to a new site.

And agin, any help, advice and interest in this project is welcome. Or if anyone else wants to take this on, I'd be happy to let them. The main thing is preserving the SAV community as a place for thoughtful and sarcastic / fun commentary, and maybe even eventually attract some new members.

I for one won't go anywhere near Facebook, Xit etc but I know I'm not alone there.

I wish we could post topics here. Yeah we have this forum but everyone hits the main page instead. Guilty as charged your honour.

I love the relaxed attitude here, the intelligence, banter and general friendliness. Everyone is chilled. We can be serious or talk shit. It doesn't matter. I've never seen a community that can self moderate like this one does.

I've made some very good friends at this place, I don't like seeing people move on. That's what concerns me most. The lack of stories?? Pfft, we make our own fun.

My 4 dolla fiddy. Fucking inflation...

There has been a bit more discussion on the main profile and I just added this comment:

Ideally it would be nice to have @Vaxman involved in discussions about the future of the site. To me it seems like his intention is just to keep it open and leave people to make whatever use of the site they like.

Wix is really annoying in that you cannot search posts. And within a day or two all the posts pretty much disappear, since hardly anyone is going to bother scrolling more than a few pages down.

That's unfortunate as there have been some truly great posts that are simply permanently lost.

As for security, I trust that users are presumably not signing up with their real names and not using their main email account. But point taken, if T'rump and company get back into office (however unlikely that seems), they are already announcing loud and clear that they are going to take revenge on anyone and everything. I was actually pretty concerned about this at the beginning of the T'rump administration.

@JGorn - antivaxxer goatee hell  @Vaxxed2themax  @HOS  and others.

 I added some more comments to the post a few posts down about the future of this site. I ve volunteered to help create a new wordpress site. It would be great to have a core group such as you guys to help make any decisions about what the site will look like and consist of.

One thing we can (mostly) all agree on is that everyone would like to keep this as an active discussion forum and very few want to keep looking at Laura Loomers nose for the few years.

We could of course try contacting Vaxman again and see if he is still interested in keeping this site going, or he would like to advise on the creation of a new site. it would be nice if whatever happens, has his 'blessing' more or less.

Did I miss a post wherein the site operators let us know what's up? One of SAV's attractions for me is discussion conerning peoples' motivatioin when behaving in obviously self-harming and anti-social ways. This particular situation feels mildly passive aggressive in nature to someone (like me) unfamiliar with tthe details.

I don't understand why, but this site seems to attract only intelligent people!

I do not call people "intelligent" simply because they agree with me! I've learned from my experiences on Facebook that there are people who are on my side politically yet who don't understand satire. If I post a cartoon of an elephant saying something ridiculous, smart people will understand that the elephant represents the Republican party. Those who are not as smart will misinterpret the cartoon elephant's views as my views!

I've even found an instance of a Democrat who was opposed to the teaching of Arabic numbers in schools. After repeatedly explaining what "Arabic numbers" are, this person still opposed teaching them in schools!

Here on SAV, when I post a satirical meme, everyone here seems to get it! I've never had to spend time trying to explain my message to people who misunderstood it. I have experienced that on Facebook but never here.

If a "spinoff" of SAV is created, I hope it can retain what exists right here!

Plenty of free possibilities such as https://www.proboards.com/free-forum-features. It needs admins and creators as well as members. I am not going to do it.

I would love to see the community continue, whatever the topic (SAV, politics, recipes, the weather). I have loved reading thoughtful, intelligent, scurrilous, hilarious, profane, educated, and articulate commentary from the members, & have fallen in (platonic) love with each and every one of you.

I too am not a fan of Twitter (whatever its name today) and FB, and I'm dubious about reddit given its recent turmoil. But I will go wherever this group goes.

If HCAman and Vaxman no longer have the time or the inclination then maybe pass it on to someone who does? Not sure how we would go about that. There's more than enough scope outside of anti-vaxxers and we already do talk about plenty of other subjects.

It would be a shame to lose this resource. I come to laugh and learn and you guys get my mordant humour but though the site will trundle on if it isn't updated then we're kind of in limbo a bit.

I don't want to do the Zuckerberg option as I have an aversion to Facebook. Reddit is an idea but that would mean no memes? (I do love my memes).

Anyway there's my three fiddy.

If Vaxman and HCAfolk aren't here, who is maintaining it in the way of money to host it? Will it just disappear one day?

I'm fine with looking at Laura Loomer forever as a symbol with her stupid hat until she dies, but my biggest fear is losing this place as an actual news outlet with intellectual discussion and respect.. I come here first these days to see what PAB or his minions are doing, who got arrested and charged, sentences, etc. as well as other news that pops up. I really enjoy what I call intellectual conversation around this place and I have to say I do like the anonymity. I could stop tomorrow and none of you would try to find me. There's a little comfort in that.

I would really like to see SAV continue and I think beyond simply an anti-vaxxer site. This sounds awfully pessimistic but something along an Apocalypse Watch site. I think that one of the reasons the anti-anti-vaxxer movement (that would be SAV) caught everyone's attention was that we thought it was finally the perfect FAFO example. We could argue until we were blue in the face about something like global warming to no avail because the FO of the FA was not immediate (or so we thought). The in your face results will show up in a decade or two decades or 50 years down the line. But with Covid the FO of the FA happened fairly quickly - friends died, family members died, enemies died all within the space of a year or two. Once they developped the vaccine many of us were briefly confident that the cultists and naysayers would realize the error of their ways and an instinct for self-preservation would prevail. Well - no. They cling to their delusions like a lead coffin in the big muddy. They would literally rather be dead than be educated. So in that sense SAV was a failure. Documenting the stupidity did not deter the fools. On the other hand many of the posters on this site are wonderful resources. They keep up with the politics, the science and they keep all of us informed. That is invaluable for me. Whether it is alternative energy, medical information, global warming or the buffoonery of misogynistic politicians this place shines a light on it and oftens suggests ways of dealing with it. I would like to see that continued but perhaps in a form where we could find things a little easier, communicate with specific members privately if we wished to do so, where topics are a bit more organized, etc. I am not techno-savvy and can't help on that front but I knw what I would like the site to look like.

Per my latest posts, I still come across much vaccine misinformation to justify continuing the mission of this site and stay on topic. I did no web searching, just browsing. Just saying. No dispute.

Your forum topic is justified so all SAV members may weigh in on our future as a website community. Thank you!

If I can be of service, I have @9,000 hrs of Photoshop clock time and over 30,000 hrs on PC/Mac based audio recording/editing/composition. (A mind is a terrible thing to waste) I also edited a couple of books (pamphlets, really) concerning international negotiations in 'English as a Second Language' while living in S. Korea in the mid nineties. Thanks again for trying to find a way forward.

With most people not wanting to join the Billionaires SM brain drainers, Reddit would be the obvious choice. It's probably worth starting something like that as this site has been hemorrhaging good content contributors. Better get them on side sooner, not later. As they say all bleeding eventually stops.

I don't do social media - the kind that is done for billionaire profit. Never will have a FB, Xit, Instagram, Tiktok, or other such account.

So if a spinoff goes the direction of, say, FB, I'll wish you all well and move on.

The site has to move beyond pandemic topics, and toward current events topics. And for the sake of functionality it probably needs to leave Wix. Xitter and Facebook are off the table for me, but any other site that isn't overrun by far-right assholes and kooks is fine. As for support, I'm not sure I'd have enough time to moderate (I'm working on a project that will keep me busy for at least another year). Certainly I could occasionally write short articles. I recommend some kind of mission statement that defines the site's purpose and goals.

Thanks for posting this. I'd join any group related to the members populating this one, although I wish we could make it work. (The searching forever for posts is one of my pet peeves -- but of cousre, not a dealbreaker)